Of course you don't sell shares unless you have the certificate in your possession, in fact most brokers will not sell your shares until they have checked the share register and (possibly) received the certificate form you (otherwise they risk selling something you haven't got (as happened here). I would say the brokers have been idiots here, especially as they were dealing with an inexperienced and new client. Who would take their side in this matter?? So if you are brave tell them to take a running jump. Although I cannot see why you didn't tell them about the problem earlier.
You say that Jarvis say the shares "had dropped". In this case you would have made a profit on the transaction. Although if this had been the case then Jarvis would have just bought the shares back to cancel and said no more. Without knowing the full details I cannot say much more but frankly I wouldn't worry, after all we are only talking about a ￡800 investment here (I am assuming you got the basic allocation.
I cannot see everyone's attitude here, the authorities will inevitably take the side of the client rather than the brokers who are supposedly the 'experts'. What broker accepts an order where the client says "oh, yes I have the certificate" A lot of certificates are replaced by new ones and invariably a client will still be trying to sell the old one. Any broker worth thier salt will check thoroughly before selling.
You told Jarvis to sell something - they did so under your express authorization (and I bet they have a recording of the call). Jarvis had to deliver your shares to the buyer as part of this agreement, when they couldn't they had to make good on the transaction by reimbursing the buyer by buying the shares on the open market. It cost Jarvis money to do this transaction which you authorized. Jarvis is not going to take a loss based upon a mistake made by you or Royal Mail (and why should they).
Your beef is with Royal Mail - either they did not follow your express directions correctly, causing you this loss, or you made a mistake when you made the original transaction, in which case you eat the loss.
In short, you owe Jarvis and you will lose if you go to court. You may also get tagged with Jarvis's court costs if you let it go that far. You have two options really - Pay Jarvis and go after Royal Mail for the screw up or pay Jarvis and write it off as a lesson learned to verify everything.
You may not "feel obliged to pay anything", but under the law you have basically done the same thing as going to a restaurant, ordering a meal, and then decided that you are not hungry before the waiter brings your food!
You still gotta pay for it!
I think you have failed to read the terms and conditions, you assumed, and assumed wrongly.
Always read the terms and conditions.
The 8th deadly sin, ~To Assume~
Pay up or be sued, and take solace in the fact your shares have risen, now make the best move.
Save the shares,
and apply to get the dividend paid in more shares not in money, that way your number of shares held will rise, and hold for at least three years, and review, and if the Royal Mail are still paying a dividend, hold for at least another two year possibly as long as eight.
That way you will be laughing and not bitter about having made a mistake.
This is how you make BIG money in stocks and shares.
http://www.johnashtone.com/stocks-shares...
" I replied disputing their fees, exclaiming that it was an error on behalf of the Royal Mail"
What has that got to do with Jarvis?
"I therefore had no certificate to send to Jarvis, and did not contact them further, assuming the transaction was void"
Sorry but are you just dumb?
How on earth would jarvis know you didnt have a share certificate if you dont tell them?
(not that it would have done much good. they would have carried out your instruction within minutes of receiving it.)
You told them to sell shares and they did,
To complete the sale they required the share certificate.(legally this must be provided to them at the end of the trading period (I think its 1 week after the end)
You didnt provide it (WHY you didnt provide it has nothing to do with Jarvis)
The ONLY thing they could then do was to buy back the shares at the current price to balance the trade (ALL trades must be balanced at the end of a trading period)
Since the shares had lost value between your order to sell and their repurchase YOU are liable for that loss plus their trading costs (which I assume came to ￡!75).
You ARE liable to pay that money, and you WILL go to court if you dont pay it, and you WILL lose,.and it WILL cost you a lot more than ￡175.cos your problems with the share certificate have NOTHING to do with jarvis
As for Royal mail
I dont think you have a hope
You asked for share certificates and sold the shares before receiving them.
That was real dumb (share certificates can take months to arrive)
Share certificates MUST be sent to the trader at the end of the trading period (which is 2 weeks)
(and I think it must arrive at the trader max 1 week after end of period)
(and these rules are the rules of the stock exchange and NOTHING to do with jarvis's terms and conditions- all they do is point them out)
That gave you a MAXIMUM of 3 weeks to get the certificate then send it.
The second dumb thing is that nominee trading is a lot easier and quicker than using share certificates.
If you HADNT asked for a share certificate and left it in a nominee account there is no requirement to send a share certificate
Personally I woudl advise you
1) pay Jarvis (cos if you dont you are going to lose a lot more money AND its likely no trader will touch you in future)
2) write off the loss
(if you are going to trade in the future you are likely to make much bigger losses than this.
(the reality of trading is
you will win some, you will lose some.
The aim is to maximise your winnings and minimise your losses so that the 1st is bigger than the second.)
3)dont do ANY more share buying/selling until you get to know how the stock market works and its rules
4) IF you start trading then read the rules of the company you are going to trade with) If you dont understand them then go to another company. or ask them to explain them)
5) If you dont understand them (or more likely dont bother reading them) but continue to trade then dont blame others if your stupidity causes you problems.
Hi there,
Can anyone please help me with the following query, I have put it into bullet points as it's easier to follow:
In October I purchased Royal Mail shares, I had requested a share certificate for which I was waiting to arrive.
Mean while, I contacted an execution only stockbroker called Jarvis to sell them on for me, via a verbal agreement on the telephone. I had also created an online trading account with them, for which I had agreed to their terms and conditions.
After waiting a few weeks to receive share certificate, I contacted Royal Mail to be told that I had been given a Nominee account and not a share certificate as requested.
I therefore had no certificate to send to Jarvis, and did not contact them further, assuming the transaction was void.
In Jan 2014 they contacted me saying that due to receiving no certificate/transfer form, they had to 'buy back' the shares they had sold for me, and were charging me ￡175.00 to do so, as the rate had dropped.
I replied disputing their fees, exclaiming that it was an error on behalf of the Royal Mail and that I had complained about Jarvis to the ombudsman as I felt their terms and conditions were unfair and unclear.
They replied saying I had entered a 'verbal contract' on the telephone and had agreed to their terms and conditions and that if I do not pay them by April 14th they will take me to the county court.
I don't feel obliged to pay anything, but do not want to go court... please help!!!
